sharing is fun, discuss.

topic posted Thu, July 19, 2007 - 1:57 PM by  banshee
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suibom, you're are right. this group has been dead for too long.

and i want to talk about meteors.
first of all, i an not going to transformus, and i am not going to burning man, so there (sticks tongue out).

given that, there are no meteor spinners, outside my troupe. so learning meteor in a relative vacumm, you make stuff up and then you watch jet li, jacky chan, and that other guy....what's his name?....ah bruce lee. sorry.

anywho, of the online stuff i've seen a bucha birds being kicked around and alot of wraps.

okay, now wraps are fun, i know i know. girating hips and all.

but what i'm really excited about is, uh. how exactly do i explain this?

alright so in yes, romeo must die, there is a wonderful fight scene with a fire hose as a meteor hammer. there's one part where he wraps it under one leg, grabs part of the length, and then as he unwraps his legs he lets go of the length and it hits his opponent in the face.

what i'm talking about is the grabbing a length, and shooting it.
anyone here know what i'm talking about?

look, here's my ulteior motive: i want discussion. dammit i joined this group and now i wanna talk.

so that's what i've been doing and that's why i'm telling everyone else, not because i want to keep it a secret, but because i want to talk and share and hopefully something good will come from it.
posted by:
banshee
North Carolina
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  • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

    Thu, July 19, 2007 - 3:05 PM
    Actually, minus the leg, I've been working on a "hit" to a balsalm wood target. Ideally, I'd like to have it hit, flame and shatter.
    Dangerous as hell but boy, what a finish!!!
    I can't seem to do an acurrate hit with my leg however.

    For me I have to get the "hit" down and have found that a "pump" action forward and back with my arm will allow accuracy with about a foot, not great but a start. And I hope that once I get the "feel" of the momentum down, it will work from there. Yeah this was tangental.

    Good Luck!!
  • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

    Thu, July 19, 2007 - 4:35 PM
    So there is some ambiguity. Meteor and meteor hammer are chinese kung fu weapons. We'll leave that aside. In the common parlance of fire spinners, rope dart is a long one with one fire bit. Meteor is shorter with two ends.

    To do that move with meteor would be amazingly difficult.

    To do that with a rope dart, just swing under one leg, grab the rope, and turn 180 degrees, to return under the leg, wrap your knee and extend while releasing the loop of rope. There is a really goofy video on youtube about Empty Knots. I should probably get around to updating those terrible things, but insofar as I know, that or Li Jen Heng's rope dart video are the best places to start. A neck empty knot is the eaisest one to learn, because you can change the length the most without hitting the ground. Shoulders are difficult because you have to really twist to release, and leg to knee empty knots are difficult because you have to lift your knee high.
  • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

    Fri, July 20, 2007 - 6:02 AM
    Well, as Sam says, you're wanting the Fire Rope Dart tribe for the types of moves you're mentioning:

    fireropedart.tribe.net/

    But I'd love to pick up this conversation there. If you ever mess with youtube, look me up (same user name) and take a look at my playlists. I've got a decent number of good rope dart vids in there that will keep you working for a while :). Unfortunately, the meteor vids are hugely lacking :(.

    Soo, that being said and in the nature of the first post (discussion), where is meteor headed? What new is being developed? Crazy new avenues have been opening up and explored in the worlds of poi and staff, what about meteor?

    I've heard talk of contact meteor, but never really seen it (aside from a neck wrap and one handed rotors), what contact moves have you developed?
    I've only recently figured out that hyperloops and inversions can be done with meteor (with heavy limitations), how far have folks taken these moves?
    Anybody developing legwork?

    What else? I know there some crazy new potential for this tool that I haven't seen or thought of yet, but I just can't figure it out.

    Peace,
    - Sui
    • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

      Fri, July 20, 2007 - 7:37 AM
      So, umm... can you people come to Wildfire? Its a performants arts training camp in southern Connecticut, apparently the largest of its kind (the only of its kind?)

      I have LOTS of rope dart stuff to share, and I want quite badly to pick up new material. At the moment all I have are beginers screwing up to inspire me for new content... which works supprisingly well, actually.

      www.copperheadfire.com/wildfire would be the website for WF, pretty sure the class schedule is from last year, though.
    • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

      Tue, July 24, 2007 - 3:22 PM
      mebbe I should get my lazy ass together and make a vid. There's alot of new meteor stuff for me, lots of good stuff to whack yourself in the head with. Now to come up w bitchin names for them, hmm

      Horizontal Contact
      Basic h neck rolls to start, try for two. It's kind of like a hula hooping motion. Next go from neck to under one arm, exit at the waist. Thats one complete neck roll, on the next revolution just raise your far arm and allow the rope to wrap around your shoulder, then you just reach down to your waist with your leading hand and (backhanded) pull out. Once you start playing with leading edge contact moves, you can replicate most contact moves. One of my fav setups involves(hard to explain, but I'll try) a backwards spin, leading hand bent back like wrist at shoulder(alot of leading edge here) wrap rope around shoulder to the armpit, then let go. Starts with a neck roll, but it's a good setup move for combos, like neck roll to h halo to neck roll(matrix eventually)

      Vertical contact - or, even better ways to whack yourself in the head
      Building blocks - crossers, neck through wraps, front and back entry
      First, just work on a no hands neck roll, one full revolution(I think), no hands. Next, one of the more interesting moves I've happened on recently, compound thru wraps, or neck burners, heh. From weave, double neck wrap, let go, cross sides. One full revolution, no hands, and sometimes it even pops neatly back into my hands for a clean exit.

      Throws to contact
      Backside steve - So is a throw, then you just raise the opposite arm, allow it to slide down the outside of the arm, down the body, it spirals a bit, and you can catch it at the waist just like the roll mentioned above.
      One more thing, then I should get back to work.
      Neck catches, horizontal throw, catch in the crook of the neck, no hands. Sometimes into a neck roll too.

      Sorry I dont have time to explain more right now, just some new stuff I've been working on.
    • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

      Fri, September 7, 2007 - 3:02 PM
      hyperloops work if i turn my body 180 to untangle them. also if i release one hand and go into a one hand weave or rotor (i guess that's what you call the contact hand thing where it goes in a circle but your not holding it, just kinda gliding it yeah?) the tangle will come out

      haven't been able to get inversions with them.

      whenever i try something like a steve it seems like hellish burn land. i may have posted earlier about the one handed polyrhythm butterfly flowers(3.1. and 4.1) they work pretty well, i keep head doing the 1 about twice as long as the head thats doing the 3 or 4

      also, what size is your meteor, and about how much weight do you have on the ends... something to play with.

      meteor is fun because almost all the poi stuff carries over, sometimes limited and harder, but it still works, but then you can do the mad fun meteor only stuff.

      hmm
  • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

    Fri, July 20, 2007 - 11:32 AM
    mmmmhhhh.
    yes, see?
    discussion is a wonderful thing.
    and sorry about the poor termonology, i mix them up in my head a bunch, mostly because my baby is a meteor that i typically only light on end of thus meteor/dart. but whatever.

    first, aiming. let's say this is using the foot. i've found that the aim is determinate upon where i put my foot on the rope ( or chain ) in relation to the distance to the head. other that that, it's all flippity foot work.

    as far as contact meteor, i've been steadily building on my contact staff work, and at the same time i've been applying this to meteor (yes, dbl ended). i feel mad for calling it contact cause it's not that spectacular or complex. but.....using the shoulders to pass and grasp the rope against my neck, and then passing it under a leg then wraping or jumping over it. but seriously, can the audience tell that i'm not using my hands? no, usless they're looking really hard.

    thanks for the links to the youtube vids. i too was having trouble finds vids of anything to provoke inspiration. however i was enjoying the rope dart competitions.....a little too fast to gain any knowledge without watching a dozen time though.

    anyone here fooled around with any combat? i've choreographed some two person dart routines, but in play i've been having lots of fun with dart versus....well, from nun-chuks to staff or even poi.
    • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

      Fri, July 20, 2007 - 11:43 AM
      Rope dart aim: Horizontal aim is position of the foot. Vertical aim is 100% timing of the release. Perhaps you can do some vertical aim with positioning, but it really is just changing the timing. High means too early a release, low is too late.

      >anyone here fooled around with any combat?
      Someone has. I haven't. in my (arrogant) opinion, fire combat falls into two categories: improvised fire sparring, which is almost always slow and boring, with a few fleeting moments of danger and choregraphed fire dance combat, which almost always looks amazingly hokey. Ive seen fire combat done well once or twice.

      Really sit down and ask yourself why you want to do fire combat. Is it because your tools are based on martial tools? Because that's not really a great reason. Is it because you feel that you are lacking dance? Try something less agressive. Now, if you want to add storylines into shows, then you are on to something, because agression/opposition is something that is easy to grasp.
  • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

    Sat, July 21, 2007 - 6:54 AM
    yes sam, ya do got a valid point. however i must broaden the scope a little tinsy bit. i like to experiment with combat because it's fun. cheorograph that is borne from improvisation and half-remembered dreams. i feel that "the dance" must be incorporated however. now as for this resembling martial arts....i must state that in my opinion, it's not a martial art! it's damn fire! any....well martial artist? ninja? anyone who does martial arts would not do it on fire, unless he or she were training. the training for dart and meteor traditionally included putting either fuel or water in buckets, tying them to a length of rope and spinning it around without getting wet or burned.

    but i'm just blabbering...
  • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

    Fri, September 7, 2007 - 2:57 PM
    haven't made a fire one yet.

    just recently discovered one hand polyrhythms (3.1) carried over from poi.

    other than things im carring over from poi land (staff tricks haven't worked well yet, aka, i'd burn the fuck out of myself if it was fire if i tried contact staff tricks on meteor)

    currently using about a four foot meteor. what's everyone else playing with.

    dee is the only one with meteor vid up, there is another one of some guy just doing a weave over and over again.....

    banshee, if you ever made it up to pdf theres this guy dee whose sick with the meteor, but i dont know if he goes up there anymore....

    also, you're in with that whole greensboro crowd? do you ever hit up wilmington nc with bash and them. i need to get all the east coast meteor spinners together.... there's 2 in d.c., theres a few people playing with it but not trying to push anything here in richmond. and i try to push new tech with it whenever i get it.... still trying to get hand roll fountain things clean....

    anyway, vids i've found on youtube
    www.youtube.com/watch
    • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

      Fri, September 7, 2007 - 4:06 PM
      i'm trying to get vid's up, but i don't have a camera. soon though...

      i was in the greensboro crowd, and my friend nire went up to wilmington a little bit ago and spun with bash. however now i' am in asheville, goin to school.

      i don't have a meteor right now, my monster meteor broke so now it's a dart. but it's a burnable rope dart, so it's smooth as butta. and about ten feet long. my other dart is a chain with 2' jungle wrap kevlar on the head.

      what's pdf?

      oh! i've been working on windup's and then letting them rip. the aim is the tricky part. and i'm sure you're familiar with some of the martial arts move that have some crazy wraps and then with one move are releashed at a target point. those are fun....

      thanks for the link to the vids. i'll check em out when i've got a better signal.
      • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

        Fri, September 7, 2007 - 8:40 PM
        hm, don't know of windups as i haven't messed with meteor long and just rock as i can.

        pdf is a regional burn that happens in delaware. i think you guys might be going to alchemy yeah?

        i haven't seen nire and wade and them in awhile? i need to hit those cat up.
        • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

          Sat, September 8, 2007 - 12:22 PM
          Banshee is talking about rope dart, not meteor (as is meant in this group).
          • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

            Sat, September 8, 2007 - 7:49 PM
            yeah i noticed that in the beginning, but upon further inspection i noticed that she does do meteor too, albiet a HUGE FUCKING METEOR :)

            i noticed when i looked up martial arts meteor, what they call the meteor hammer is just a rope dart with a big metal ball on the end....

            then other places speak of water bowls and using centrifical force to keep them going.

            ah well, thanks though sui :)
            • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

              Sat, September 8, 2007 - 9:33 PM
              yeah. Suibom, Musashii, ian, jared, and myself laid down the law a year or so ago. Martial arts lingo is screwy, but in the fire arts, two ended ropy thing is a fire meteor (or meteor for short), and long one-ended ropy thing is fire rope dart (dart for short), even though the dart without a pointy head is technically a "meteor hammer" in martial arts lingo. For the sake of clarity, we've established those words into Newspeak, report all noncompliances to the ministry of communication for reeducation.
              • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

                Sat, September 8, 2007 - 10:12 PM
                i think that it is impossible to have a group attributed to meteor and not have things tie in to rope dart. impossible. i had a meteor. one end wore off....thus...meteor.
                further more it is possible to do wind-ups with a meteor. it just has a small striking range.
                • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

                  Sun, September 9, 2007 - 1:45 AM
                  depending on the size of the meteor. a practice meteor (meaning two ended when i say meteor) without it being on fire you can use it for dart moves as well as poi moves.

                  if someone has say a 14 foot long meteor, you can grab one end far along enough to not burn yourself and then do dart "moves"

                  note i only use a 4 foot meteor.

                  i need to hang out with west coasters and learn meteor tricks cuz i don't have anyone to learn from wanh wanh wanh. it's kinda fun learning from myself.

                  that's why we need to get together on the east coast and trade shit AKSJIFPOGHAN!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

                    Sun, September 9, 2007 - 1:47 AM
                    ::tribe drama disclaimer::

                    i hope this didn't sound like a no it all post, i've seen so many arguments by people who misunderstand eachother through this medium. so thanks sui and sam for clarifying!
                    • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

                      Wed, September 12, 2007 - 3:15 PM
                      traditional meteor is generally as tall or taller than you are. Mine is ~7 or 8 feet. Not quite sure what the fascination is with short meteors, unless of course you want to work up to two at the same time. If you do want to try and get into contact, lengthening your rope is the way to go.
                      • Re: sharing is fun, discuss.

                        Wed, October 10, 2007 - 11:12 PM
                        Delighted to find this group, and see that obsession reigns.

                        The skill/technique level has gone far beyond what Rhys Thomas wrote (and I edited and published) in 1999 in The Meteor Book, so there's little I can contribute. When I started bugging Rhys to write the book, six years earlier, fire was exclusive to jugglers and carny, and poi was a Hawaiian and Inuit trick with one (1) move. Things change.



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