Rope or chain?

topic posted Tue, May 9, 2006 - 7:20 PM by  Morgan
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I'm new to meteor and I'm really interested in learning to make one. I spin poi and one thing I like about it is the flexibility. I'd like to ask all you more experienced spinners if you prefer kevlar rope over chain. I assume ball chain is heavier and far more droopy (flexible), thus not the best for horizontal moves...
posted by:
Morgan
California
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  • Re: Rope or chain?

    Tue, May 9, 2006 - 10:09 PM
    You definitely do not want ball chain for a meteor. Ball chain degrades and it is difficult to inspect. With that length, you're asking for a fireball to be flung at your audience. Generally, and due to cost of kevlar, you'll find a length of rope (various material), connected to a small length of chain on either end (just enough to protect the rope from the fire), which is connected to kevlar wicks (often monkey fists). I've seen chain used with rope dart moves, and that was welded link chain, but I've never seen a meteor of pure chain.

    Peace,
    - Sui
  • Re: Rope or chain?

    Wed, May 10, 2006 - 12:56 AM
    i use lariat rope for the middle and ball chain (about 6 inches) on both ends to connect to my wicks. the combo has served me well thus far. Sui's issues with ball chain are well founded, but I think it takes a whole ton of wear and tear that happens much faster on poi than on a meteor.
    • Re: Rope or chain?

      Wed, May 10, 2006 - 3:45 AM
      Nods.. There's not alot of torquing that goes on with meteor as there is with poi (such as wraps and yanking on chain tangles). But the thought of an entire length (5 to 8 feet) of ball chain, and the number of possible failure points, made me shiver a bit.
    • Re: Rope or chain?

      Wed, May 10, 2006 - 11:58 AM
      yah, I used a ballchain meteor and rope dart for the first year of learning and performing. Never had a problem, except that chain is _not_ the best way to learn, and you get huge callouses(not a horrible thing, but painful getting there). I'd say chain is something you work up to, if you even want to go in that direction. I now use rope for meteor and rope dart(with a foot or so section of dog chain by the wick, w sampo swivels). More tricks, more comfortable.
      • Re: Rope or chain?

        Wed, May 10, 2006 - 7:07 PM
        thank you thank you thank you. I'm so glad I asked before going out and getting some new chain. I've also read about different lengths. I'm 5'9" and I don't do as many wraps than some others I've seen. Is there a good starting length or is it just up to personal preference?
  • Re: Rope or chain?

    Wed, May 10, 2006 - 9:04 PM
    First off you don't need a swivel! I gave that up long ago and haven't looked back sense.

    I definitely recommend rope somewhere in the range of a 1/2 inch diameter but ultimately whatever works for your hands.

    if not rope then something much heavier then ball chain. I've seen thick steel cable work well. Plastic coated of course.

    I used a ball chain meteor for ages and the problem i find with chain, aside from it hurting your hands, has to do with the way I think meteors need to be weighted.

    I feel, there are three parts of a meteor that's weight in relation to the other two parts affect the feel and usability of a meteor.

    The weight of the weights at the ends
    The weight of the center rope/chain
    The over all weight of the meteor

    A few good rules of thumb for these weight are:
    1. Of course the weights at the end should be as equal as possible.
    2. The weight of the overall meteor affects the amount of force your have to use to get it spinning at a certain speed. Which also, and more importantly, affects how much kinetic energy it stores at said speed, which directly affects the length of the windows of manipulation you have before say loosing splay.
    3. The ratio between center connector peace (I.E. the rope or ball chain) and end weight at the end matters

    I'm not sure how to describe why it matters but i feel the difference in all the meteors I have made and there is definitely a sweet spot. I should experiment this and define it and then have someone who knows what there talking about tell me why =]

    But my point is that the ball chain metreos I have made have to have really light wicks. When I have tried to put heavy wicks on a ball chain center peace I found it to hurt my hands a lot but more to the point it was super hard to control. I think this ratio some how shrinks the windows of opportunity for manipulation.

    hey Musashi, do you feel the same way?

    So yeah play with these ratios and definitely error on the heavier side but don't over do it. believe me I have, oh my god have I ever OUCH!
    • Re: Rope or chain?

      Thu, May 11, 2006 - 2:15 AM
      I dunno, I don't think about it too much. What I do know:

      - Stiffer rope/chain = better traditional meteor/staff moves
      - ballchain = not stiff
      - heavier ends with less drag + light rope/chain = good combination
      - middle knots are your friend, and sub knots are good for learning
      - I like swivels :P
      - Ducks taste yummy
      • Re: Rope or chain?

        Mon, May 22, 2006 - 9:30 PM
        I haven't ever tried an all chain meteor, so I have no real opinion about that.

        I have used a bunch of different rope meteors. I like biggish wicks, with at least an half inch thick rope, about ten feet long. I don't do any vertical rope-dart/poi style movements. So, I have used anywhere from 4' to 20' meteors, and they definitely act differently. I'd recommend making a variety, or trying out other peoples, and seeing what feels good to you.

        Traditionally, the practice meteor is an eight foot rope with brass bowls tied to either end. I've seen them used, but never tried them. The Wu-shu weapon, meteor hammer, has a longer rope and two metal hammers for ends. I've never seen anyone using it, but I've heard it's used pretty much like a rope dart.

        Oh, and I've found kevlar rope to be scratchy and expensive.
        • Re: Rope or chain?

          Tue, May 23, 2006 - 11:05 PM
          i bought some nomax hose cover to cover my kevlar rope, which feels really nice on the hands =]

          i hear hemp rope rocks! but it isnt fire proof.
  • Re: Rope or chain?

    Sun, November 5, 2006 - 4:03 PM
    Just made my first set of flaming meteors and I'm waiting for the nomex hose but I tried them today anyway to test the weight. They are a LOT heavier than the ones I practiced with from Flaming Sparrow. (www.foreworks.com/sparrow.html) I had to get silk rope from an *ahem* specialty shop along with my swivel hooks. I've been reading this tribe and it's been GREAT for suggestions. I don't mind that it's not stiff since I want to borrow a lot of moves from bolos and dart. I used the big monkey fists from home of poi (it was a money vs time issue)

    Well I lit today and the ROAR was incredible and I actually found a lot of the tricks easier with the heavier weight. I knew it was a hit when my whole group came out to watch (and they are pretty jaded) Suddenly my non-flammable meteors were a big hit at practice. :)

    It was totally worth hitting myself in the head with the fists countless times to get here. I can't imagine using chains.
  • Re: Rope or chain?

    Sat, November 25, 2006 - 10:06 PM
    I made my first meteor about a month ago using sailing rope. It's 7/16ths by ten feet. There is eight feet of wick on each end that seems to be heavy enough. A guy at the sailing shop told me about a way to weave a loop into the rope that is seamless and stronger than knots. It's called a fid. I've found though that when practicing with socks on the wicks they tend flail and go out of plain. Too much drag I know. I've burned them four times, so far, and haven't seen any damage to the rope at all.

    M

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